catalana: This got long...

Erica (

catalana) wrote,
@ 2006-06-09 22:23:00

This got long...

folkmew did one of those anonymous posting things on her journal and someone posted this:

I feel envious , green with envy when other filkers are guests, have concerts or put out a CD. I'm happy for them, but want the same thing for myself. I feel like what I do in the community isn't noticed or appreciated. Most of the time I have these feeling under control, but sometimes I just want to stomp my feet and yell. Childish yes, but there it is.

I started writing a really long answer in response and decided to pull it over to my journal. Note that this is mostly geared towards people who are performers (or want to be!) I agree that we're not always good at recognizing our background people either, and I have thoughts about that too. But it sounded to me (possibly wrongly) that this person was a performer of some kind but was frustrated with the opportunities he or she was getting.

Guesting is unpredictable, and I don't have a clue how people become guests. Sorry - I'm no help there. But as for the others:

[Obligatory disclaimer: I am not a filk publisher nor do I run filk programming at any cons. However, I've done a lot of concerts in a lot of places, been on filk concoms (well, technically I'm on one now), and have personal experience in being really shy and trying to figure out how to get noticed. But this is just my opinion and experiences.]

If you haven't done many (or any) concerts before, try asking. If it's a big con like OVFF, they may not have a lot of room - and the schedule may be arranged many months in advance, so it might not be possible to get something close to the time. *But* other filk cons and general cons with filk tracks are often easier to get in. A local general con with a filk track is a great place to start concerts, if you have one near you; it's a way of getting your name out and getting people to think of you...and you can probably figure out who to contact, because it's probably someone in your area.

Because, frankly, if you're not getting concerts it may just be that people don't think of you - not that they're actively ignoring you. If you need help putting yourself forward (like if you don't know who to talk to or are intimidated or whatever) feel free to come talk to me and I'll see if I can help somehow! I don't know everybody, but I probably know someone who knows someone. *grin*

If you *have* offered repeatedly and been turned down, see if you can find out why and figure out what to work on. I've known people who didn't have enough material for a concert who did a joint set with someone else and kind of alternated songs; this also works if your material is narrow in range and you're worried about having too much of it all at once ("They'll kill themselves laughing - what should I do?") If you're worried about your performance abilities, try a Juried One Shot or even just getting someone who you trust and tell them you want an honest opinion...as long as you can handle it. (For what it's worth, I'm happy to do this, too.)

As for a CD...have you tried talking to someone who puts out CDs? I basically only did my first one because Phil and Lissa Allcock (hmm, and I think Annie Walker, come to think of it) listened to me going "Well, I'd like to do one, but I don't really know how or who to do it with" and they said "Oh, we can do that!" I'm doing my second one with Dodeka because I floated the idea to Bill Roper (several years ago - I didn't say I was *fast* at doing these.) So think about who is in your area that does CDs (again, I might have some names, if you have no clue) and try approaching them - it's not terribly likely that they'll wander up to you someday and say "Please do a CD with us;" you probably need to talk to them first.

Even if they turn you down, you might get some ideas as to why - are they worried about your material? Do you not have instrumentation and they're worried about an a cappella CD (didn't stop Seanan - she got people to help her!) Do you need backup singers but don't know how to get them? Trust me, we can solve this problem. (Oh, pick me, pick me! I'll sing for anyone! *grin*) Once you've broken the problem down, it's much more solvable - the trick is sometimes in figuring out how to get the input you need to get a handle on the problem. And then you may be able to approach them again, this time with a possible solution in mind - which may give you a better chance.

Don't feel like you need to stomp and yell - let me help! I agree that people sometimes need to be hit over the head so they notice others...and I'm happy to hit people over the head on others' behalf. Honest. I do it all the time - that's why I'm a teacher. *grin*

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jhayman
2006-06-10 03:53 am UTC (link)

All good comments. There's also issues like, "Do you have a realistic view of yourself?" While acceptance in the filk community is about being present, listening and giving, GUESTING is quite another experience.

I feel humbled when I'm asked (rarely) to guest or to do a concert, because I don't perceive myself as a stellar performer at all. I think I'm a decent songwriter, and I've worked at doing that. Worked HARD. My guitar playing has improved and continues to improve, ditto +++ for voice. But I'm NOT a stellar performer. However I am a truly stellar organizer. In a concert, that's not good enough by a lot.

Another issue is "Are you REALLY known? And what for?" The person who rarely gets outside their home area, and rarely gets heard in a circle, is almost a non-entity. OTOH, if you write truly fine material OR give terrific performances, others will pick up your material.

Ultimately if you're not in filk for having fun moment by moment, you're probably there for the wrong reasons. At Marcon I got to be centre stage. Whoo-hoo. I enjoyed it. And I got tired of it because I also enjoy sitting back and working on a subtle drum line or harmony for someone else. It may be so subtle the main performer doesn't even hear it.

Envy? You bet your freaking ass I feel it too. For others who are more polished or more naturally talented, who get guest spots more often or concert spots or even being part of showcases. (Funny I don't envy a single soul who run cons, because I know that I do it as well as it can be done. So there.) And CD's too, though anyone can have one if they throw money in the right direction. But I have met my envy head on and realize that it only destroys what was and ought to be a joy in my life. And is again.

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mdlbear
2006-06-10 04:24 am UTC (link)

Heh. The only thing that gets me on stage is the knowledge that I can sing "Desolation Row" better than Bob Dylan can.

Envy? Sure. There's always somebody better, smarter, or prettier. Or in my case, all three. One gets used to it after a while; at that point you can sit back and enjoy the music, sing along, or go off to a quiet corner with somebody to work on a song together.

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	Read this ... really ericcoleman 2006-06-10 01:02 pm UTC (link)
	It is the best basic guide for a performer I have ever seen. And says many very important things that have to do with what you have said above. You don't need to be a stellar performer, you just need to be real. http://www.tomrobinson.com/writing/gigtips.htm (Reply to this)(Parent)

folkmew
2006-06-10 01:46 pm UTC (link)

But I'm NOT a stellar performer.
I don't know... I mean as you say you have worked HARD. And one of the things I think you do really well is balance your set and play to your strengths. You are such a witty, funny, outgoing person and you work that into your stage banter and stuff and it shows. You do songs that are funny as heck OR are about something that means a great deal to you. If you pick a slow serious song it isn't just because it is "pretty" or "popular" it's because it means a lot to you. That makes a lot of difference because it shows in your performance.

Also I know that like me,

trektone and plenty of others - you work your ass off when you are a GoH. So it's not a surprise to me that you are being asked more often to be a GoH lately. These things run in cycles but they aren't totally random.

We *all* have strengths and weaknesses as performers. I am green with envy at how someone like Tom Smith seems to be able to just make them eat out of his hand so effortlessly. But I also know there are things I do very well and I try to build on those.

And I think what

ericcoleman said is a great point too and really sums up what I was saying about you as a performer: You don't need to be a stellar performer, you just need to be real.

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tibicina
2006-06-10 04:52 am UTC (link)

I know at least with some conventions if you want a concert, the best way to get it is to email or ask the head of programming a while before the con. It gives you more time to work on it and they're more likely to have open spaces in their schedule that they'd be willing to let you have. The closer you get to con, the more they'll be filling up slots and going to people they know are willing to do concerts. Or at least that's been my impression.

Not that I've had my own concert anywhere, but that is my understanding at least for some conventions and it really can't hurt to ask politely. Being a guest is different of course, that is something where people ask you, and I have NO idea how that process works.

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mdlbear
2006-06-10 05:13 am UTC (link)

Often if you email the head of programming (usually something like programming@example.con) they'll send you a questionaire -- that's what Baycon does, anyway. Once you get on the list you can usually count on getting the questionaire the next year, too, especially if you're willing to be on panels as well as doing a concert. It's a little more dicey with cons like Westercon and Worldcon where the committee changes every year.

Filk cons tend to be small, and the concerts are mainly by invitation, though it never hurts to ask. And, of course, sign up for one-shots and such.

(By the way,

tibicina -- are you going to be at Westercon this year?)

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tibicina
2006-06-10 05:31 am UTC (link)

Where and when is Westercon this year? I think the answer is 'no', sadly. I don't have the extra money and what money I do have is earmarked for Comic Con, but... I suppose it's /vaguely/ possible. At this point I'm not even sure if I'm making it to any of World Con and that wouldn't involve a hotel room or much in the way of travel expenses and other pesky things like that.

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	mdlbear 2006-06-10 05:36 am UTC (link)
	San Diego. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	tibicina 2006-06-10 05:49 am UTC (link)
	Maaaaaaybe. I'd have to check with the people I know down there on whether I could stay with them because I really /can't/ afford a hotel room. And it's a three-hour drive each way. I'll poke at it and get back to you. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	mdlbear 2006-06-10 05:45 am UTC (link)
	Forgot the "when" -- July 1-4. Probably too far for you to commute, unfortunately, though I'm a little fuzzy on the geography down your way. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	oreouk 2006-06-10 07:50 am UTC (link)
	There is usually scope at most filk cons for people who want concerts to ask for them however, even the ones where it really is mainly by invitation. In the UK it's mainly by asking for a concert that you get one and the concom tends to feel something's gone wrong if it has to go 'round asking for performers. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

jhayman
2006-06-10 01:03 pm UTC (link)

I think that this would depend on your percepetion and definition of "concert". On this side of the Atlantic, that would be at least a half hour to 45 minutes for non-guests. At cons like GAfilk, FilKONtario and OVFF, there are VERY few concerts for anyone but the guests. We don't have an extended period of time where people can do 10 or 15 minutes mini-concerts. The coastal cons have more concerts (a LOT more in some cases) but still have to pick and choose.

At FKO we often wait our concerts to see who's coming. We can't afford to comp memberships -- which some cons do for concerts. Usually there are twenty requests for every spot to fill, so we want the selection to be the RIGHT one.

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	bardling 2006-07-02 08:25 am UTC (link)
	Filk cons tend to be small, and the concerts are mainly by invitation, though it never hurts to ask. That's mainly a US/NorAm standard, UK & German cons are different in that concerts tend to be mainly allocated on a first-come-first-served basis, probably mitigated somewhat with considerations like "has this person had a slot last year" etc. (Reply to this)(Parent)

From a different perspective....

jalapenoman
2006-06-10 05:32 am UTC (link)

Both

catalana and

jhayman both had good points on self improvement, how to get a CD done, etc. (wow, never though about some of that stuff). The most important thing to me would be to have fun. Practice, constuctive feedback, multiple performance in filk circles, and expanding your song list all sound like good ideas. If you there already, then you need to work on your connections, and get heard performing. There is no vast conspiracy out there, just people making decisions who don't know everyone in the filking universe.

GUESTING is um, tough. From what I have seen, it is by a committee of people, and planned.....way, way, way in advace. Year(s), not months. The community has grown over the years, and there are many talented people, but not that many spots. Concerts are easier, and housefilks (have a seat and a song) are easier yet.

If there is a con (or multiple cons - lucky you) in your area, find out if they have a filk track, and who runs it. Ask nicely for a concert (or use humor, it can work) or mention your interest in doing concerts, if they have heard you perform before. If not, ask if there is local housefilk activity and ask to be put on the email list, then go. Go to open filks at cons, and try your stuff out. Try hitting housefilks out of your area, where there is a filk friendly con (some will glady provide crash space, if notified in advance, check with who is organizing that particular housefilk). Introduce yourself to the community in that area, and get known. Then ask for a concert at that con. And remember, things get chosen wayyyy in advance. So, this year, they may already have planned, but next year, they may have open, and letting them know your interested might help. Having them hear you perform (housefilks, con open filkcircles) helps too.

Also, if you want to perform at a con out of your area, regular attendance helps. If you normally don't make it to the con, then you probably won't get asked to do a concert at that con. Most cons don't comp. regular concerts, because they are non-profits, and spend all their money on securing convention space, con suite, and other expenses. If someone doesn't regularly attend, then they might not be on the list for possible concerts.

Above all, have fun. Life is too short, and be lucky you have talent. Some people sing in the key of R (like me -guilty as charged!) The filk community by and large is non-profit, and all the filk cons are run by volunteers that love filk music. There are some commercial aspects, but there are very few people in filk that make a living in music, much less by filk alone. I am on a con committee this year because I love filk music, and wanted to help give something back to the filk community. There are many people who I would gladly listen to play for hours, and many of them have never published a CD. I would give them all concerts if I could, but it is not possible.

Good luck, and have fun.

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Re: From a different perspective....

folkmew
2006-06-10 01:38 pm UTC (link)

And not just asking for a concert - but asking "for a concert and however I can help!" would go far with impressing the filk organizer in my experience. If I think someone *only* cares about performing I'm a lot less sympathetic. I admit that I made a splash pretty early in my filk experience (hey, I was a vocal music major at the time what can I say?) however, I will say that BEFORE I was "discovered" I helped run filking at Nova Con and printed songbooks and helped do other concom work. I think it's important that we all chip in in many ways to keep filk running not just perform and listen. But that's my filk "gardener" speaking. ;-)

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	Re: From a different perspective.... filkerdave 2006-06-10 02:02 pm UTC (link)
	I usually check off every tickybox I can on the reg form, if I actually fill out a reg form (for example, I know I have memberships for OVFF and FKO, I'm not sure that they had me fill out forms for either con). I mean, I know I'm going to end up working at a con if I'm there. (Reply to this)(Parent)

shannachie
2006-06-10 07:55 am UTC (link)

I can understand [Bad username: “Folkmew“]’s comment very well. I feel the same kind of ambiguity sometimes when I learn about the GOHs of some future cons and on the one side can say “Oh great, I’ll enjoy listening to them - they're so good” and be happy for them, but on the other side this “green with envy” feeling she writes about also lurks at the back of my not totally house-bred mind. Sorry.
I started writing filk songs in the early nineties. I must have written about 230 so far. Or even more. I get two or three sung at a filk con. If I have a concert spot, 4 to 6 more (which will be chosen among the better known ones). The problem is that the majority of my songs will never ever have any outside listener at all. There are too many of them. I write them, and nobody will ever hear them. Also, people with a rather more limited amount of songs sing those repeatedly – and understandably thus do imprint them on the minds of the listeners far more effectively than I do.
Overseas cons are expensive with all the travelling from Germany. So there is not more than one a year for me. That gives us the bonus of the “exotic” but that, too, has devaluated with time. The familiar stops being exotic.
The first overseas con we were at, we were Interfilk guests – and promptly got hooked. So for 8 years we’ve been coming to overseas cons. We always paid. We were never invited as GoHs, not once. Sometimes people ask would we come to this or that con as GoHs, we tell them yes, of course, and then we never hear from them again.
Yes, it would be nice to be invited. Money is one thing; recognition, of course, is the other - and far more important. It would have meant a lot to me. I am one of those people who need input from outside to know that what they are doing is not total crap. Silly maybe. But that’s the way it is.
I realise that we would not be asked to do concert spots if we were total crap. I hold on to that. I also know that the likelihood of us ever becoming GoHs has long dwindled to non-existence. New filkers have come up. There are fashions and generations in filkdom as in any other field. And admittedly, there are so many people that are so incredibly good. With my less the mediocre instrumentalist’s skills I cannot compete.
So I shall have to resign myself that we – or I at least – will remain the “there-anyway”s.
As a “there-anyway” I can understand [Bad username: “Folkmew“]’s comment all too well.

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jhayman
2006-06-10 01:07 pm UTC (link)

You need to be invited as guests. And North American cons look at the price and say "Gulp!" -- as compared to North American guests! (And then *I* say, FilkContinental brought not one but TWO three person groups over!) It's always a problem. FKO made $200 last year. That was better than the previous four years.

Maybe the nMC project will help us change the perception that it can't be done. It can be done in many ways.

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	filkerdave 2006-06-10 01:24 pm UTC (link)
	It also depends on what time of year it is. Airfares to, say, FKO or GaFilk are going to be cheaper than airfares for NEFilk simply because of the time of year. (Reply to this)(Parent)

katyhh
2006-06-10 01:50 pm UTC (link)

Actually the prices *aren't* that astronomical. I feel however that the belief that they ARE are so strong that sometimes people don't even bother to check or to compare. An average airfaire from Germany to North America is between 750 and 1000 Dollars. An airfare from the US to Canada can be up to 500 in worst case, too - as I had to painfully learn in spring ... I was surprised that the difference wasn't all THAT huge ...

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	filkerdave 2006-06-10 01:59 pm UTC (link)
	It may depend on when and where. Current airfares to the UK are roughly twice now what they are in the off season. (Reply to this)(Parent)

stevieannie
2006-06-12 11:49 am UTC (link)

It might be worth those overseas conventions thinking about other ways of bringing people over. I know that when FilkContinental brought over Phoenix, we helped pay for some of the costs ourselves. We didn't mind - it was a fun thing to do, and as there were so many of us, it only seemed fair. And just being able to be there and to sing as GoHs was a magical experience that I will always treasure.

I'll bet there are other European guests who would be happy to help out with their own travel costs in that kind of situation. Besides - if they can't, they only have to say "sorry! No money!".

I also agree with Ju's comment about fashions in filk. I happily recall being "the new kid on the block". Tragically, I'm now the sad old trout :-)

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phillip2637
2006-06-10 03:37 pm UTC (link)

"The problem is that the majority of my songs will never ever have any outside listener at all. There are too many of them. I write them, and nobody will ever hear them.

I've written very little by comparison, but I have the beginnings of similar feelings. Compounding the problem is the fact that I don't actually want to perform. (

catalana and I went over this a bit after the most recent FKO, so I won't dwell on it here.)

OTOH, even if your songs aren't getting exposure in the quantity that you would prefer, I think you're known for having achieved a musical quality that many other writers envy. I might consider such a thing a fair trade. :-)

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patoadam
2006-06-10 06:11 pm UTC (link)

We were never invited as GoHs, not once.

Oh dear, what a dreadful collective oversight.

One problem is that overseas guests are expensive. I know of one con that loses money every year and has never, AFAI can recall, had an overseas non-Interfilk guest. Consonance, as of next year, will have had an overseas guest five years in a row (counting Terence Chua even though he was in school in the U.S. at the time), but we're struggling to break even.

Another problem is that cons often prefer guests who have never attended their con before. This is simultaneously understandable and tremendously unfair. Consonance typically has someone who has never attended before as GOH, and someone local we wish to honor as Toast, neither of which you qualify for. (Our GOH for next year attends every year, so things may change.)

Another problem is that concoms, being composed of fallible human beings, have biases.

And another problem is that it's a big world out there, with many worthy guests in it.

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keristor
2006-06-10 08:13 am UTC (link)

Disclaimer (for others, you know it): I'm from the UK, and we do things somewhat differently in Europe, so this colours my opinions...

As far as getting a concert slot, ask. I know that some of the con programming people at US filk cons have said that they are frustrated because every year they ask for people to volunteer for concert slots and they only get the same people asking (in the UK we have more people wanting to do concert slots than we have time). I've heard a number of US filkers saying that they feel that they "aren't good enough" for concert slots, and won't volunteer. Quite frankly, they have only themelves to blame, no one is going to try to force someone to to a concert slot! Yes, there are some cons which allegedly do only choose people they 'know' to do concerts, and ask for demo tapes and written recommendations for anyone they don't know, but they aren't the only filkcons.

In the UK we will often give preference to those from out-of-country and new or rarely-heard performers. We can hear our home-grown ones any time, but when we get something new we will often ask them to perform /because/ they are different. I gather some US cons do much the same.

Being a guest -- from what I've seen it's hard work. Yes, it's an honour (and the committee choose who /they/ want to honour, and yes it is likely to be someone well known, although not always, sometimes it's someone they think ought to be better known), but it means preparing at least one major performance, and preparing it well in advance (there are still comments about certain guests who apparently didn't bother preparing), often getting involved in introducing other performances, being on panels, or whatever (cons have various activities, but the point is that any guest who expects to show up for their own concert and do nothing else is not a good GoH).

Doing a CD is also a lot of work. It isn't just sitting down with a guitar and singing each song once and then the CD magically appears, it involves planning, working out which songs will go well together, which styles and moods go together (OK, some people have that easy, when all the songs are ose the only question is whether the listener will slit their wrists before getting to the end of the CD *g*). Deciding what othr performers will be needed, getting them together (with the recording equipment). And then doing each song 5, 10 or more times to get it right. Recording companies won't come beating a trail to your door to record you, filk CD producers have normally got far more possible projects than they have time to do them (says he with recordings of 3 conventions which I still haven't gotten round to sorting out).

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	Relevant filk faqs sdorn 2006-06-10 11:50 am UTC (link)
	Also see the relevant (Debbie Ohi) filk faqs on getting concerts and recording a CD. (Reply to this)

madfilkentist
2006-06-10 12:36 pm UTC (link)

I feel envious, green with envy when other cons can fill out their performer tracks without having to beg.

Well, not quite, but from my standpoint as long-time filk organizer for a general con, I find that the problem is finding enough performers. With people who have a performance record, I'll go after them and ask if they want to perform, but it would be very frustrating for me and intimidating for them if I asked lots of people who've never done a concert before if they were up to doing one. (OK, this is probably shyness on my part.) People have to show some interest in performing. Signing up for a one-shot or equivalent is one way to do this, and to step up toward full sets, but I've had trouble even getting people to sign up for these.

For people who want to perform at cons, start by asking. You won't get anything worse than a friendly refusal.

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filkerdave
2006-06-10 01:09 pm UTC (link)

What I find, of course, is that asking is intimidating in it's own right. I get away with asking, say, in the Northeast because I know the people.

Asking for a slot at a con where you DON'T know people is, I think, the equivalent of asking someone out on a date. Yes, in THEORY all you'll get is a "no thanks" -- in actuality, there's the internal voice going, "ohmygodthey'regoingtolaughatme"

At least I find that.

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bardling
2006-07-02 08:39 am UTC (link)

Hmmm, maybe some of these could be helpful to you:

- setting aside some time & making it known beforehand for people to do one-shots, two-fers, 10-minutes... This gives people who haven't performed (much) before a chance to get something heard & to try on the performing shoes. I've experienced both regular short interludes like this between regular concert slots and the European style "main concert", which is usually a sign-up affair.
- similar to the above, FilkCONtinental has done a "wish concert" before for people to not sign up themselves, but wish for other's songs/performances
- making it known that people who don't feel up to doing "a whole 1h concert" slot that they can have shorter, 20-30 minute slots
- teaming people who aren't up to 1h together into groups to either alternate songs or divide up the 1h-or-whatever slot in some way among them? I've seem this tried successfully, and in some cases it has encouraged very enjoyable collaborations

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bardling
2006-07-02 08:47 am UTC (link)

Oh, and you could help with

filkerdave's perception by making it known you're open to volunteers and generally encouraging the volunteering culture. It does require strengthening the "open to anyone, not just to exceptionally good performers" view.
The shyness is mutual - you're too shy to ask someone who's never performed, such a someone may very well be too shy to ask, unless they receive encouragement from somewhere, esepcially, if it's perceived that the general culture with US cons is that asking for concerts is inappropriate/doesn't work, even if *your* con is different, unless you make it *known* that your con's policy is different.
Perhaps telling people "hey, if noone volunteers, there won't be any/many concerts this year..." might rattle some volunteering loose, too...

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folkmew
2006-06-10 01:33 pm UTC (link)

I think you make some great comments and suggestions!

The only thing I'd add is that for beginning performers round robin concerts are terrific! They let you do less material, you aren't holding down a whole concert by yourself so you don't have the pressure of "oh god, what if I don't have good enough material or enough of it!" if you flub you get a breather before your next song. Plus there is almost always a cammeraderie on stage that will be supportive and put you at ease.

And let's face it - for the concert organizer there is less pressure to make sure ALL the performers are really terrific, if you take a chance on a beginner in a round robin you can make sure they are supported with some good solid performers. That way you are comfortable that the audience is getting a good concert and also that you are letting new voices be heard.

(and my final reason I favored round robins when I was running filk at a con is that it is just plain a chance to let MORE performers perform in less time. ;-)

I'd also add that if you feel you are getting turned down a lot and feel you really DO want to improve and DO want to know honestly why - ask specifically why? Say something like "I really want to become a better performer, can you give me some specific advice? Be kind!" Most filkers are more than happy to share our "expertise" just try to stop us!

I'd also say take every performer workshop, instrument, voice, stage presence, wongwriting - etc workshop you can. You'll almost always learn *something*.

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	phillip2637 2006-06-10 03:16 pm UTC (link)
	"round robin concerts" I don't think I've encountered those. If it's what I'm imagining, it sounds like a neat idea. Care to elaborate? (Themed? Pre-designed vs. ad hoc? ...?) "wongwriting" I do that! Except there's an 'r' after the first 'w'. :-) :-) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	filkerdave 2006-06-10 03:42 pm UTC (link)
	Typically you'll have 3 or 4 people and they'll rotate between songs. The FHoF concert is kind of an extended round-robin. (Reply to this)(Parent)

folkmew
2006-06-10 03:43 pm UTC (link)

"wongwriting"
Oops! (Why am I hearing Wang Chung!?)

When *I* did round robin concerts at ConFusion when I was running filks what I did was try to use my knowledge of the filk community to create a nice mix of people I thought would be compatible for some reason. In some cases it might be old friends. In some cases it might be similar musical influences or styles. In some cases I knew that a few people all really enjoyed Trek Songs or something (ose songs, space songs... whatever) (mind you I didn't set up themed concerts I just knew their rep would likely be compatible).
and, in one notorious case, I just thought "Hmm - Pete Grubbs, Tom Smith... very different musicians, but both really strong personalities... I bet they'd have some fun together. And that became a very popular tradition. :-)

I love them. I think they are laid back and potentially (usually) you get some great stuff happening. Ideally though they do require some considerable knowledge of the filk community to finesse them that much.

However themed ones can be fun too. I've done some of those as a performer.

I've also seen some nice stuff done with 'hosted' filk circles where there is a theme and a host(s) and it's a little like a concert in that the host performs and may choose specific people to do specific songs, but there is room for others to perform as well. That can be fun but admittedly isn't the same as a "concert".

Personaly speaking I also think that allowing things like "twofers" or 15 minute slots is perfectly acceptable and a neat way for the big filk cons to try to let more performers onstage but not be blocked solid with nothing but concerts. It's a real balancing act and my hat is off to the organizers of these who we'd be LOST without!!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	filkerdave 2006-06-10 03:53 pm UTC (link)
	Pete Grubbs, Tom Smith Yeah, perfect for beginning performers ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)

billroper
2006-06-12 04:34 am UTC (link)

I'm always surprised when someone asks me to be a guest at a convention. Ask

daisy_knotwise about how confused I was when Capricon asked me to be their Fan Guest of Honor several years ago, because I thought I'd been sent a piece of e-mail intended for someone else. :)

I usually don't ask for concerts at conventions, which may explain why I don't do as many of them as some other folks. I did ask for a concert at the last British filkcon I was at, but that was because I was hoping it would be the last time I would be able to come over that way for a bit. (Not because I don't love going over to visit, but because travel is going to be more difficult if all things go well for Project Baby and I knew by the time we were planning the trip that things would be underway this year.)

I am a thoroughly lousy self-promoter. I suppose that this annoys me some times, but then I conclude that if I was a really good self-promoter, I'd annoy myself more often. :)

Switching hats for a moment (as he grabs the Dodeka hat), there are far more CD projects that might be done than I have the time or energy to pursue. Heck, there are far more good CD projects than I have the time or energy to pursue. If we haven't come looking for you to record an album, it doesn't mean that we don't like you. It just means that -- for one reason or another! -- we're doing something else right now.

I remember a long-ago conversation with Teri Lee of Off-Centaur Publications and Firebird Arts and Music. Back then, they were about the only "important" filk producer. If you didn't have an album out from OCP, then you obviously weren't a worthwhile filker.

That wasn't true, of course, nor did Teri believe that. But people in the filk community believed it, so it must have been true, right? And even trying to produce filk music full time, there were always going to be more worthwhile projects to be done than there was time or money to actually do them.

You want to know how much it can suck to have people annoyed at you because you've declared them to be "not good enough" whether you've actually done that or not? (In the interest of avoiding a long digression here, I'll note that there are many people who've had rocky relationships with Teri for a variety of reasons and just say that's not what I'm trying to address here, so let's not rehash twenty five years of filk politics right now, ok?)

It occasionally makes me very nervous that Dodeka is, by a lot of measures I might use, the largest producer (if not the fastest :) ) of filk albums out there. Because I don't want to be that particular gatekeeper. It's no fun.

The good news is that technology has become democratic enough that self-producing your own CD isn't as ugly or expensive a process as it used to be. And I'm always willing to give free advice, worth every penny that you pay for it. :)

Ok, I think I'll go to bed now...

(Reply to this)

	ohiblather 2006-06-12 09:36 pm UTC (link)
	Do you mind if I link to this from the Filking.net Filk FAQ? This entry plus the comments are excellent. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	ohiblather 2006-06-12 09:37 pm UTC (link)
	Could you possibly e-mail me directly (inkygirl@gmail.com)? For some reason, my LJ comments notification doesn't seem to be working. :-( Thanks. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ohiblather 2006-06-13 11:47 am UTC (link)
	Thanks, got your ok! I'll link it up soon and post when I have. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ohiblather 2006-07-02 12:11 am UTC (link)
	I've linked to this LJ entry in the Filk FAQ: http://www.electricpenguin.com/filking/columns/filkfaq/archives/003879.html Thanks! (Reply to this)

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